b"I said: I don't know 30 or [They said] What? How many boiler rooms? [I said] Well, one boiler room, but you know[They said] How many stories, how many acres? and they were all sitting there fascinated, because 600 is the biggestone any of them managed. And here you are, three times that.I went to even bigger, I went to Grant Houses, which was1900 on the West Side of Manhattan: 125th Street. And again, you're part of the community. There are very activechurches up there that hold a lot of political sway. You're the guy that gets involved when things have to get involved orget done. It was no small job, it was fun. It was really fun and I enjoyed it very much.You went from there to then working for the union. You said you ran into a problem with someone you wereworking with or was that a supervisor?An administrator gave me a hard time. He was busting my chops about rent collection. As far as I was concerned, I was one of the best rent collectors in the city. But rent collection goes month by month. Christmas, it's tough. Beginningof the school year, it's tough. People buy the kids clothes rather than pay the rent. Your delinquency gets a blip. This guycame out and he was saying to me your delinquency went up and I said: Okay. And he says: What do you mean okay?I said: It's December or whatever month it was and he got sort of arrogant. He said: You don't even seem to care aboutit. I says: Of course I care about it, but you know as well as I do, you were a manager, it goes up and down. It's just one ofthem blips. I'm still the lowest in the city. He says: But you're not putting any effort into it. And he got very close to me,like nose to nose.And I sat there and I I was a street kid. He come close, he [laughs] he come that close to getting hit.And I said, I'm not I shouldn't lose my job for this jerk. And in that moment, in that very moment, was when I pickedup the phone and I called Carl Haynes, not to complain about him, just to say: If you ever want me to work for you, I'd beglad to work for you. That's what happened. And if Carl Haynes hadn't picked up the phone that day, I don't think I wouldhave called back.Was there anything else that pushed you in that direction or was it just that interaction with the Administrator?I was involved with the chapter. I just didn't think they held me in high esteem, having turned that contract down. Theywere not very happy with me. And Carl used to say for years that we were big time enemies. I never disliked the man oranything. I just figured this job was good and I'd seen what the business agents do. Also, as a manager, we were hearingofficers. In other words, when people got in trouble, they were brought up on charges. The managers of the Projects, notyour own Project, but you went to other places and you were the hearing officer. So, we learned disciplinary actions. Welearned how to do hearings. I had a lot of interaction with the business agents from the union who were representing themembers. I got to know the business agents and I always thought, that's something that I could do. Matter of fact, I thought that's something I could do a lot better than they're doing. I knew the Housing Authority rules and regulationsinside out. So, who better to represent somebody, than someone that really knows what the rules are? And sometimes,these guys would come and they weren't even familiar with all the charges or where they could find what that rule was.Some were better than others. I figured I could do it, quite a bit better, and if I could get people under me or working withme, I could train them and that's what I did.When I got here, I did want to work down here. I didn't know if it was goingto happen. The other thing about the Housing Authority, there's so much that can go wrong. As a manager, you wake upin the middle of the night and think: Oh my God, did I take care of this? Did I take care of that? Some things being more97 "