b"Since the game did then take place, what did you do about team shirts?That's another question. Barry asked me after the game; he says to me, What are you gonna do for shirts? I said,Barry, let me tell you something, we don't need shirts to play. What we need to do is play. What we need to do is play.We don't need shirts. We will come to the game, we'll put on whatever shirts we have, okay? And the shirts, I mean, itdoesn't mean much to us. What means to us is playing the game and doing the right thing. So we'll be there. Norris tellsme, Well, what are you going to do for the shirts? And he said, Well, we'll wear different shirts. I'm surprised he didn'task me to reimburse him for the shirts because the union used to pay for the shirts.Did you also play? I was manager and the player. See, I come from a background of sports, back to 11,12. I play baseball, not softball,but I play baseball all my life, so I come from that background. So I was the manager and a player at the same time.Mostly, I would say that most, in the Projects, most, the majority of them were players and managers at the same time.What does being a union member mean to you? When I first came out of the Army, it was very important to get a job with the City and then, be able to belong to aunion. There is differences when you don't have a union and to be in a union. I think that, they could help you in yourworkplace, with your benefits, negotiating contracts, getting all the benefits for your family. Being a union member to mewas very important. As soon as I was able to join the union, I joined the union right away. My relatives who work for theCity are all union members. My son works in the Housing Authority. He came out of high school. He worked in a bank andthen from the bank,he became a teller for the Housing Authority. I've always said for me to be hired in 1972 by Barry, is because there were others before me. There were other unionmembers that made it possible for me. So I always look to those that were here before me and I always appreciated every-thing they did for me, because they were the founders. They were the founders before I came in 1972. Because of them, I was able to be hired by the union and do what I was doing. And I've always said it, you know, that all this that came before me and for me to be here where I am today, is because of them.Now that you're retired, what does it mean to you to be a union member? I have been retired since 1998 when I was 53, about 20 years ago. I am very grateful to this union, not only for giving me the job that I had, but also after my retirement, the benefits, everything that I was getting, when I was active,those benefits, I still have them. I have no problems with communicating with the union. I still do it. I bless this union forwhat it has done for me and my wife.My wife and I just had our 56th year, we have four children Jeanette is one ofthem working for the union and we got five grandchildren. I came out of the army in '63, right? And working here andworking for Housing, it was like a beginning for me. And I say it again, I happened to be in the right place at the righttime. If that didn't happen, I wouldn't be sitting here right now talking to you and enjoying what I have.Do you remember what your starting salary was when you began working for the City?About 2,300. Yeah. It was very low pay.52 "