b"the rules? You're negotiating for the person. It's the old win-win-win. I'm going to get you a better employee if you let mespeak to him, I'll guarantee, he's going to start coming to work on time, ba-ba-ba-ba, if that's what it is, and you will not haveto worry about him in the future. In the meantime, I don't want you putting him on the street, taking money out of his pocketor fining him. Ill work with him so he wins, he doesn't get punished too harshly, you get a better employee in the end and ifthat works out, the next time I come to you, you're going to work with me. Alright? You establish this relationship. This classtaught us how to build relationships, how to caucus, how to take one side, then the other, how to let people vent. Youlearned how to listen. It was a very good course, invaluable as a business agent. What was the question? [Laughs]The question was, What does it mean to you to be a union member?Well, I see what happens in places where they don't have unions. I think people get railroaded, I think there's favoritism of all sorts that happens and I think people get a fair shake with the union. You know where you stand, youknow what the rules are. You do have someone to support you if you're being abused. And that is important. Even when I was here at the union, I would see that certain managers would do certain things to people, not because they had to, butjust because they could. You say to the manager: Why'd you do that, you didn't have to do that, there was like six otherways you coulda gone.He'd say: Well, I thought that's what you're supposed to do, you know, drop the bomb on him orsomething. They would treat people much harsher than they should. Housing Authority got pretty strict at times and,there was a lot more cases being brought up than should be. When I was a manager, hardly any managers were everbrought up on hearings, you never heard of it. But there was a point where, some administrators got in there who werereally into discipline. Housing liked that and promoted a whole bunch of them to directors. They prided themselves onhow much discipline action they could bring against people. When they got together, they bragged about it, actually. Andthey used to forget I was in the room, but they brag they have hit lists, I'm telling you. I would be there on another thingand they'd forget that, hey, Ed works for the union, he's not one of us anymore and they'd brag about hit lists or who theywere going to get or how they got somebody, so[laughs]. The funniest thing is the people that were hardest to dealwith in getting stuff, were the people that were really my friends. They didn't want to lose to the King [laughs], we werefriends so long, whatever, but that's where I got the worst time from. Two of my friends teamed up one time, beat the hellout of me in a hearing. Kicked my ass all around the place. But we are still friends.Do you have anything else that you want to talk about today? About your work life, either for the City or in the union?I found both to be very satisfying. I'm one of the persons that loves to come to work. I always did and I always feltthat I was being treated fairly in the Housing Authority. They were pretty open. I saw a lot. It was a lot to laugh about.You're out there in these small offices and in some really bad neighborhoods and stuff, so you had to be together to somedegree. But I always enjoyed it and I was never afraid, not one day at all, in buildings or ever felt threatened. When I talkto people I live upstate and people say: How do you do that? And Oh, that kind of neighborhood. They're fascinatedthat somebody would be there, especially like a white person. You're in these bad neighborhoods with minorities. Butnever, ever, was I ever afraid. You were part of the community. I also tell the story about when I was a housing assistantand I walked out of my building at my first job, Mitchell Houses. I might have been there a year or two or something likethat, and I was walking over to one of my buildings. There was a line coming out the building, wrapping around the corner. I thought that was curious so I kept going to the building. All of a sudden, someone says: La policia, la policia100 "