b"has to be there. If it's not the union, there has to be someone there, of your choice, to hear what's going on. It can't beone on one. One day I was called into the office, and they said: Mr. Hepbourn, this is a command discipline, becauseyou're not complying with what we told you to do. I said: Well, where's my representation? They said: Oh, you don'tneed that. Oh, yes I do. I got up and walked out the office. Then I wrote a report about it. While working for Correction,this- [holds up a pen], got me in more trouble than anything else. This was my policy. I'm not going to curse you out, I'm not going to beat you up, I'm going to write you up, because this stays around longer.Then I noticed that a lot of other captains coming to me, saying: Hepbourn, I like your style.You need to be an officer, we need you. I don't want to be a corrections officer, no. No.[They] said: Come on, you a big guy, come on, you can do the job, just come on, man. No, I don't want to be an officer, because it's too much nonsense with officers.What happened after the two and a half years in the bakery?Ms. Bradley came and pulled me and the other cook back to the kitchen. I went back to OBCC, the same jail I hadcome from, but it was a different tour. I worked 10 a.m. to seven p.m. That was the dinner meal. But, you know, theressomething about working at 10 a.m. that ruins your whole day, you can't do anything else. There's nothing open beforework. When you get off, everything's closed. All you can do is work. 10 to seven is the worst tour to be on. But okay, I hadno choice, I made it work. No weekends off. I had Wednesday and Thursday off.How long did you do that? I did that for about 3 years. OBCC closed in 2002. Then I went to the women's house, Rose M. Singer in 2002 forthree years. That's on Rikers Island as well, it was a special jail, just for women. That's the worst place in the world. I hatedthat. It's different working with all women and all men. They're crying: Oh, I can't do that, this too heavy for me, can youhelp Look, please, just [exasperated sigh], you know, I hated that job. Theres always a connotation that it's a sex thingall the time. They'll try to be nice to you, they want you to bring them something.You're always under observation. Theycan't work as hard-not all of them, some of them can.Women don't have the same upper body strength as men do, so alot of the heavy lifting I had to do. I worked hard; my job became harder. There were eight to 10 cooks on the shift.The women are just different, different mentality. (They would try to flash and stuff to see what you would do.)In 2006, the Department of Correction started consolidating the kitchens. There are only three kitchens in productionright now that feed all the jail population. They closed Rose M. Singer kitchen in 2006 and then I went to C73, that'sGeorge Motchan Correctional Center on Rikers Island, just a different address. I stayed there until I retired around 2012.I was thankful because I always had the ability to do the job, I was just in a different setting. I was just in a differentkitchen, that's all. What did you like best about your jobs? It kept you active, it was always something new to experience. I did learn working with inmates in Rikers Island thatthey are not all bad people. Some guys that I met on Rikers Island that were inmates would come to me and say: Hepbourn, can you teach me how to cook? You never look at a recipe, you never look in a book or nothin, you just goahead and do it. Can you teach me that? Some were very good, but I said: Listen it's nothing that I can give you any180 "