b"Was the problem with management?We had a problem with management, we had a problem with supervisors. They didn't want to recognize us. Attimes, they didn't even want us to go into the building. Security used to stop us. I used to wait for them to come out ofwork. Once they leave the building, I'm no longer on their grounds. I started organizing them in different areas. If theywent to the train, I would seek them out. If they were going to the bus, walking, going to their cars, that's the way I lookedto organize them and get the cards that we needed. Some of them wanted to join the union. A lot of them came from private industry, some did not trust the union. And that happens quite often. Some of them wanted the union becausethey wanted to get better pay, benefits, representation. They didn't just want to get fired because they did the slightest[thing]. A lot of the supervisors didn't know how to deal with the unions. To them, we're the enemy: You cant come hereand talk to the people, or tell them what to do or whatever, so they used to be very upset.There were a lot of part-time workers who would never get benefits. Work two hours today. Come back tomorrow and work 8 hours. I explained to them [the workers], that working as a part-timer, it's not a permanent job. I was theirbusiness agent because I organized them. I negotiated a contract with Jacob Javits. I did their grievances with Jacob Javits. Anything that went wrong, they were being written up or being fired, I used to represent them there and they usedto see me constantly there. It's not like you just sign them up. What happened was that once I got the cleaners, then public safety spoke to me. They say, Manny, you know, we have a problem here. We're not getting uniforms, we're notgetting the proper equipment, they working all kinds of different hours, we have no benefits. We would like to join Local 237.I said, Okay, I'll have a meeting with the public safety officers and I will speak to them and see what theytell me. I wanted to make sure that the majority of the people wanted the union. So, I talked with them. I got their cards.We had an election and I got like a hundred percent of the workers to come in.All the other unions were public. [George] Pataki was the Governor at one time. Mario Cuomo was the one that we dealt with; he was the governor of New York at that time when we organizing. Pataki came in later and there was a situation in Jacob Javits where there was a lot of stuff going on with the unions. They even had the state police there.Every union that worked there was bounced out of Jacob Javits except Local 237. We were the only union that was maintained at that time, Local 237, because we were a very clean union. We were going by the rules. As a public employees union, you have to follow the law. I would like to return to the story about how you began working for the Union and the softball game. I heardthere is another story about a barrel on fire. Can you tell us about that?The barrel goes back to the discussion with Barry on the ball field. When Norris Jackson, Barry and I were talking, mybaseball team took off their t-shirts and put them in the barrel and burned them. We used to get shirts to represent theProject with our name, Queensbridge Houses. Each manager used to get 21 shirts for 21 players. So, on that night, theywent from one to the other and they decided, Well, we ain't going to play, we're gonna burn the shirts. Yeah, they wereangry because of what was going on. So, Barry said, Manny, what's going on here? I said, What are you talking about?He said, Look, they're burning the shirts. So, I said, Well, Barry, you know, it goes to show you that they're not happyand they're not gonna play. They were showing their frustration. So that's how the story came about of the barrel, theburning and the shirts, and how I became a business agent and rose through the ranks. This story goes. It's unbelievablehow many people know that story, have spoken to that story.51 "